FFB effects - what is simulated?

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crum
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FFB effects - what is simulated?

Post by crum » Mon Mar 16, 2015 7:31 pm

Hello,

I'm now testing your software with MSFFB2 and FSX:SE.

Generally it all works. But it seems to me that something is missing. Not sure about the math of aerodynamics, but from practical point of view, we should have significant elevator load increase in steep turns. Does FS-Force simulate this? I feel how the elevator load gets higher with speed, but no additional load in high-G turns.

Other example of something I cannot "feel" is elevator behaviour in stall. IRL when stall fully develops elevator load drops down due to lost airfolw. With FS-Force I feel the shaking when approaching to stall, but when stall starts elevator load stays the same (shaking dissapears).

Overall impression is like elevator load depends only from airspeed.

Am I doing something wrong? Or maybe FFB resoltion of this joystick is just not enough? Or...?

p. s.
Did the tests with different included profiles and tried to modify profile for own feelings.
Artem Crum
LINDA Developer
EASA PPL(A)-SEL

crum
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2015 7:05 pm

Re: FFB effects - what is simulated?

Post by crum » Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:19 pm

And looks like turbulence effects not present at all?

Feeling of minor air disturbances is really missing here (not speaking of major oscilations). Real stick in real plan is almost never rests in peace - it always moving slightly and jums pretty hard in turbulent conditions.
Artem Crum
LINDA Developer
EASA PPL(A)-SEL

RussDirks
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Re: FFB effects - what is simulated?

Post by RussDirks » Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:15 am

1. Elevator Load in steep turns. The deficiency you have pointed out has more to do with the MSFF2. The way Microsoft wrote the firmware, the centering force stays pretty much constant as you move the stick from center to the edge of motion, whereas with a real airplane, the resistance would increase the more you moved the yoke away from center. This is due, of course, to the fact that the aileron/elevator is presenting more and more surface area to the slipstream.

Keep in mind, also, that the MSFF2 simply does not have strong enough servos to generate the kind of forces a real pilot would experience in a steep turn.

2. Elevator force in stall. It is true that lift (generated by the wings) drops off suddenly in a stall, but I can't think of any reason to support the claim that airflow over the elevator drops off suddenly. It all depends on what the pilot does and how the airplane responds after the stall. For instance, if the pilot pushes the nose down and applies power, the airflow over the elevator would pick up quickly. I'm no expert in aerodynamics, mind you. These are just my opinions.

3. Turbulence. FS Force does not simulate turbulence. I tried to add that once but I was not satisfied with the way it felt. See this discussion: http://www.fs-force.com/forum/viewtopic ... ence#p1115
Russel Dirks
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crum
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Re: FFB effects - what is simulated?

Post by crum » Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:47 pm

Hello Russel,

Thanks for reply. First of all and to be clear - do you plan any further development of this software? Any new features in plans?

And if you do, then...

1. As far as I understood from using your FFB test utility, it CAN combine general "spring load" with additional force in required direction. Don't know how FFB works from inside, but from testing it looks like when additional force (some FFB fx) applied then it sums up with "spring load". And if it is so, then why not to use this to simulate additional load in turns?

2. Elevator force in stall drops because of disturbed airflow from wings and harsh airflow direction change when plane drops down (stop 'flying'). And you feel this moment absolutely clear in real plane - right in the moment of stall stick looses any 'force' in elevator authority. It feels like control cables tear of in a moment. And then when plane 'catches' airflow again, you can feel the elevator control again. I'm describing this from real flight training practice perspective (recently got my PPL).

3. What about to simulate random (minor) air fluctuations? Like those _random_ effects in EZCA?

4. Do you plan/have any API for your software? Planes are different and it would be good to have an ability to expand your default functionality. I'e - Lancair Legacy has the spoilers and it would be logical to have some shaking on the stick when they are deployed. And so on - plane specific effects.

5. Another example of what is not simulated, but could be done - ground roll rumbling increase when you go off the concrete runway to the grass/dirt outside.

Sorry for so many questions/requests. It's all from first experience from FFB. Sooooo many things could be done!

BTW, bought the license already.
Artem Crum
LINDA Developer
EASA PPL(A)-SEL

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